FAQ1: How many manufacturers were there/are of Stationary Engines ?
A: Probably over three hundred if you include the USA and mainland Europe. Of these, only a few are really significant in the hobby, and even less are still going today.
FAQ2: Who made/sold the best/most ?
A: In this country, Lister probably holds the position of the largest volume of sales in the UK and Commonwealth. Worldwide they were probably run a close second by Petters.
Quality wise, they were both probably equal, and they were also both family owned companies in the early days. Westland Aircraft came out of Petters, which is not generally
known outside the engine movement.
FAQ3: Where were most of the engines sold, and who bought them ?
A: Most smaller engines were made for agricultural purposes to replace manual labour on farms. Steam power was gradually replaced by IC engines after the First World War,
and completely by the Second. A lot of small power units were used to make new things like big cement mixers that could handle far more than a navvy with a wheelbarrow,
and to power implements like chaff cutters on farms. Water pumps, lighting generators, general machinery driving through line shafting, and many others.
FAQ4: What is the most common engine in restoration terms ?
A: The Lister D and its' variants, over 250,000 were produced, and they were made up to the early 1960's. The D is found everywhere, and can still be bought off the farmers
who used them for sheep shearing, pumping etc. The Lister D is also the most easily restored, with a host of suppliers selling new and pattern parts, plus sales of
secondhand bits from rallies and autojumbles.
FAQ5: Which is the rarest ?
A: Any engine of which there is no known existing model. Others are only tagged rare because there are none around, but very often as soon as they are mentioned
in SE (Stationary Engine Magazine) two or three owners pop up and show their engines. Many of the early engines which didn't achieve volume production or are just
very old will become rare and collectable.
FAQ6: Which is the most sought after ?
A: Most of us would like to find an old open-crank Ruston or Blackstone, but there are more modern engines such as the Lister X and XO engines which are equally
popular with engine hunters.
FAQ7: How easy is it to restore an old engine.
A: If everything is there, and nothing is broken or bent, then it is relatively easy to get an old engine running. The troubles begin when you have an engine that
has bits missing, broken or mangled and you don't have any documentation in the way of parts lists or instruction books to help you out. Finding out information
on an old engine can take weeks or months, and involve huge amounts of time and money. Fortunately, we have a network of 'Helpline' people in the UK, who offer
help with information and documentation on the whole range of engines that you are likely to come across. They are all listed most months in SE, and all provide
their help at no charge, but they do charge for copying, postage and telephone calls if required.
FAQ8: If I buy an existing, restored engine, how easy is it to keep going ?
A: Quite easy as long as the previous owner left you the relevant information that he acquired with the engine or as part of the restoration. Because most engines
only run for 20-40 hours a year, the biggest problems tend to be oil leaks and transportation.
FAQ9: What do I need in the way of facilities ?
A: See article posted 15/05/98 to this newsgroup (This article now one of this set on oldengine.org)
FAQ10: I want a big engine, what should I buy ?
A: Assuming that you have the tackle to handle such a beast, there are a large number of suitable candidates, most of which are relatively simple to look after.
The Lister L and TL, petrol and paraffin versions, the Lister CS diesels in singles and twins, the Petter S type, the various Rustons in both horizontal and
vertical formats, Crossley ditto. These are the most numerous of the mid sized engines, and they are fairly easy to acquire and run. There are hundreds of
others - look in SE classifieds each month. For really large ironware, you need to look into handling and transport quite seriously, as you will spend much of
your money on trailers and hoists etc.
FAQ11: How do I get spares for my engine ?
A: Look at ALL available classifieds, buy LOOT and other Free-aD papers, look in SE and Old Glory, but most of all, get to know other engine owners. Nearly
all GOOD spares and engine deals happen on a one to one basis as the result of a chance conversation or meeting. Most of my engines were offered to me because
people know I was interested, I did not buy too many from adverts. Rallies and auctions are another source, and the annual Fairford auction sale is always worth
the effort, just to see what old junk sells for. The Sodbury Sort-Out is also part of legend now, and is held twice a year. Look in the magazines for dates etc.
Don't go to rallies expecting to see stalls full of just what you are looking for. It is extremely rare to pick something up 'just what I wanted' It is more
likely that you will see something that you think you may have a use for, and later on you swap it for something you really need. Most spares circulate in this way.
FAQ12: What should I pay for spares ?
A: Whatever price you and the seller can agree on. You must differentiate between regular parts suppliers like David Harris (01453 860878 - Lister D spares)
who supplies new and used spares for engines, and someone who has taken a stall space at Sodbury to sell off what he has cleared out of his garage.
David publishes a price list for all his bits, he has to charge you postage on top of that, and he will walk to the Post Office himself to post it to you. He
also has to make, or get made, or buy all of the bits he sells, they don't grow on trees. The field seller will want to cover his costs and make a few bob to
put into the next project, but he is usually a realist, and you can normally get a decent deal done if you are reasonable yourself and do not try to screw him
into the ground.
FAQ13: Where do I get manuals and parts lists etc ?
A: David Edgington, Lodge Wood Farm, Hawkeridge, Westbury, Wilts, BA13 4LA publishes copies of the official Lister and Petter books. His advert inside the front
cover of every SE magazine lists all available plus transfers etc. Other sources are the 'Helpline' members in SE plus rallies and autojumbles. Many other owners
will loan books for copying, but always make sure you return them with thanks afterwards. Don't be the one who loses the only available copy.
FAQ14: What paint do I use and where do I get it ?
A: Most engines were thankfully painted in a small range of colours, most of which can be obtained from paint specialists. Colours are normally specified from a
British Standards chart, either BS381C or BS4800. The German RAL standard is always useful for other colours. Get a good quality hand brushing paint, plus thinners
etc. Most modern paints will lift off or soften early paint, so be careful. If you have a good paint finish, try to keep it intact and original. Do not paint your
engine in non-original colours or colours which would not have been appropriate in the engines day.
FAQ15: What is better to run, petrol or diesel ?
A: Both. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Given two engines of similar size and assuming good condition, the diesel will be nominally cheaper to run,
but will not like running on no load or light load. The petrol engines will run better at low speeds and on light load, but they loose more fuel through evaporation
than diesels. I have all diesels, excepting the smaller engines such as a pair of Lister D's, a Wolseley and two Bamfords, all petrol.
FAQ16: What safety considerations apply ?
A: All and any. The continuing good record of the engine movement is due in the main to the basic good sense of engine owners and rally organisers. There are a few
published rules and regulations, but generally BE CAREFUL. Rotating and reciprocating machinery is covered in the factory and in public by the Health & Safety Act.
On the rally field it is the engine owners who have to take some of the responsibility for the safety and condition of their exhibit, and this should extend into
your home and workshop. We had a tragic case in 1997 of an engine man who was asphyxiated in his own workshop by a Lister D ticking over without adequate ventilation.
Don't let it happen to you. Children in particular do not appreciate the dangers of hot exhausts and spinning shafts, belts and flywheels. keep them away out of harms way.
FAQ17: What insurance do I need ?
A: Public indemnity insurance is required for all public rallies, and all organisers will require you to state that you have such insurance and/or produce your
insurance certificate. Your home contents will not normally cover engines at home, but talk to your broker and see if something can be arranged.
FAQ18: Do engines get stolen, and why ?
A: Sadly, we are not immune to the casual or determined thief, and incidents are on the increase. Engines such as the Petter Handyman which is a big lump to move
around, have been reported as being stolen from outside houses etc. The reasons are many, but basically it is a question of selling the engine complete to someone
who may not be aware it is stolen, or breaking it up for spares which would probably realise more money than the whole engine. Do not buy dodgy spares. I don't and
I know of nobody else in my circle of friends who would buy anything that was not 100% above board. If you are offered anything that looks a bit fishy, ask your
local club secretary if he knows of anything being notified through official channels or the 'jungle telegraph'. It might be your engine one day so don't knowingly encourage it.
FAQ19: Are there any engine clubs in the UK ?
A: There are over one hundred engine and tractor clubs in the UK. Tractoritis is an advanced stage of enginitis, and leads to heavily depleted bank accounts and
marital status. Marshallitis is an even more advanced stage of tractoritis. SE lists all engine clubs that register with the magazine twice a year. A good club is an
invaluable source of information, chat, help and unofficial sales that never reach the classified ads. My own club is the Beds & Bucks Stationary Engine Club, with
over a hundred subscribing members. I don't live in either county, nor do quite a few of the other members, so don't be afraid to join something outside your immediate area.
Support your club, for it will not flourish without regular input from all members.
FAQ20: How many engines should I have in my collection ?
A: As many as you like. There is no practical limit as long as you can store them tidily and don't create a health or environment hazard through spilt oil and thinners etc.
What your wife and family will put up with is betwen you and them, don't get me involved, I have enough troubles of my own ! Seriously, you should not try to get too
many restorations under way at one time, although it usually happens that way. Of my thirteen, six are being worked on or waiting for bits etc. Two main projects are under
way, and one main big engine is being rebuilt.
FAQ21: What timescales should I look at to restore an engine ?
A: How long is a bit of string ? If you can devote all your time (you are retired) to restoration, then a couple or three months would enable you top strip, repaint
and rebuild a Lister L. It can be done a lot quicker, but I am assuming that you want to have some social life as well. People have been know to boast of doing a D
in a weekend; don't ask me to buy it. I reckon that I stripped, repainted and rebuilt my CE twin in about 60 hours, without removing pistons and crank. Over weekends
and evenings in the summer, that takes quite a bit out of your home life.
FAQ22: What is my engine worth once it is restored ?
A: Whatever someone else is prepared to pay for it. Don't get into the engine hobby expecting to make money out of it. It costs you a packet, it loses you sleep and
can get you divorced. The last thing you will do is make money at it. Most engines are only worth marginally more restored than as found. The Lister D can be bought
for £30 as a complete but non-running wreck, it can cost over £100 for bits and pieces and a magneto overhaul, and you will be lucky to sell it for £125. So your three
weeks of work have been done for nothing. A rare engine may devalue if you do not have original paintwork etc. Non standard parts will dramatically reduce your engine
value and your social standing in very short order !
FAQ23: How can I find a really rare engine ?
A: I don't know, but if you find out how to please let me know, preferably without telling anyone else. It is very much a question of luck and persistence. Most of us
are offered bits and pieces, and the more people you know the wider the net you can spread to find bits and pieces. If you drive round looking at old factories and
workshops, you can sometimes strike lucky and come across an old boy who worked in the place and knows where all the bodies are buried. Another source is the local
scrap metal yard, preferably one that has been going for 70 years and has a huge stockpile of metal that has not been looked under since the First World War. You will
be surprised how much scrap is not turned over for years and years, new scrap being piled on top. Car breakers are generally a waste of time, but is does no harm in asking.
FAQ24: What is classed as collectable and what is not ?
A: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but generally any engine that is water cooled, made up to the 1940's and is relatively pleasing to own and operate. Some air
cooled engines slipped in, like the Bamford and a few others, but this definition will not cause most engine people any trouble. Non-collectibles really are those engines
which by definition are too modern, not of stationary origin or are just not of any interest to collectors. There are no Lister engines that are not of interest, even up
to the 1960's with the D, the same goes for most Petters, all Crossleys up to the point where they switched to larger and larger marine engines, all Rustons up to the
1950's, and a few after that, all Blackstones of single cylinder size, preferably old and oily and open crank, most Bamfords, etc etc.
Note that in the smaller air cooled types, Norman, Douglas, JAP and Villiers all had early engines that generate a lot of interest.
FAQ25: What to avoid ?
A: Any engine that is obviously a complete dog. Never buy an engine in bits unless you are paying peanuts or you know that all the bits are there. More engines come to
grief because some vital/expensive/unobtainable part is missing. Any engine that looks 'wrong' ie: the paint doesn't match between the parts, or there are bits from a
later engine on an earlier version. There are increasing numbers of 'made up' engines for sale, which have been cobbled together from a lot of odd bits and pieces.
David Harris has mentioned this to me a couple of times, where someone has asked about the specification of his/her engine, only to be told that the build spec is
totally wrong for the engine.
FAQ26: How do I get an engine 'dated' ?
A: Write with SAE to one of the 'Helpline' members in SE, and you will normally be able to get something matched up to the serial number that you supplied in your
enquiry. David Edgington has all the early Lister records and Day Books, and will usually be able to glean something from these for you. A SAE is mandatory for all
helpline enquiries please. The Lister obsolete engines dating list was at last published in SE this year, along with a list of official Lister-Petter dealers. This
list is also on our oldengine.org web pages.
FAQ27: Can I get spares from dealers ?
A: Not in the normal sense, as most old spares are now gone, and the factories do not supply them any more. Some dealers may have contacts in the trade, or may have
their own hoard of spares under a bench. It does no harm to ask, but be prepared for a negative reply.
FAQ28: How do I get spares manufactured ?
A: Give me a blank cheque. You can now get most bits and pieces made from scratch, if you have the money and the contacts. I have had small castings made using
broken originals as patterns. This is quite commonplace now. There are a number of people who have set up small runs of spares for Crossleys and others, mainly
as they wanted them for their own engines in the first place. Machining and rebuilding of blocks and crankshafts is quite feasible, and even new pistons can be
cast if required. SE is the main source of information on this, but 'Old Glory' probably has more heavy engineering specialists listed as they cater for traction engines etc.
FAQ29: Are there any health hazards attached ?
A: Listeritis, Tractoritis and the advanced version Marshallitis are the main ones. Symptoms include complete refusal to lead a normal life, talks about engines
incessantly and shows photographs of his engines, not his holiday or family. Other than dermatitis caused by dirty oil and fuel and lack of personal hygiene, there
is not a lot of problems to worry about. Old oil and fuel should be disposed of properly, and you should not allow any leaking oil or fuel into water courses or drains.
Eye protection has already been mentioned, as has asphyxiation.
FAQ30: Why did you get into this hobby in the first place.
A: We bought an old chaff cutter from a guy called Barry Dalton in Chesterfield for £100. It was ostensibly for providing Ritas' growing pony population with food,
but it ended up as the catalyst for the whole engine thing. We bought a shaft-drive Lister D from a chap in Beaconsfield for £40 in bits. It was the first engine.
The next was a 10/2 diesel (sublime to the ridiculous) for £400 and the rest as they say just followed on. One thing I would say to anyone thinking of getting into
the hobby: with very very few exceptions, everyone we have met in the game has been friendly, helpful and very good fun, and I cannot think of any other hobby where so many have been thus.
That is three and a half hours worth of keyboard bashing, I'm off to have some tea and feed the horses.